The immigration debate
This is a topic that has been on my mind for quite some time, and I’ve been mulling it over quite a bit over the last few days. I’m sure most people are sick of hearing about this issue – it seems like all we hear is “Candidate X wants to give illegal immigrants amnesty!” or, as an episode of South Park aptly observed: “They took our jobs!!!” (For a clip from this hilarious and scarily accurate episode, click here.) Most of us are familiar with the obvious arguments on both sides, such as the famous “taking our jobs” vs. “working jobs we don’t want” discussion most people have, but there are other things aside from the argument that have been on my mind lately (though, I won’t promise not to make an argument here).So, moving onto one of the things that pisses me off the most: social stigma against Mexicans. First of all: since WHEN did “Mexican” become an insult? Living in the south, I can’t recount the amount of times I’ve heard someone use “Mexican” as some sort of slur, and it’s funny considering these people are so willing to convert a nationality into an insult, but the second someone uses “American” in the same way, they’re up in arms about people who hold prejudices and promote stereotypes. However, it should be noted that the terms are used differently – those who use “American” as a slur use it to generalize stupidity, whereas those who use “Mexican” as an insult use it to generalize filthiness, thievery, and exploitation of America. After all, there’s no such thing as a dirty American who steals from stores and exploits things like welfare.
Continuing along that train of thought, I’m wondering how many of those who are so willing to generalize others have access to a world map. Perhaps Miss South Carolina can help them out, but in the meantime, let’s have a little review about the Americas:
Mexico is not part of Latin America or South America – it is part of North America, which *gasp* makes Mexicans Americans! Now, some people find it incredibly easy to misconstrue this little tidbit of information – this doesn’t make them citizens of the United States of America (I emphasize this because people have become prone to thinking that America is only the states) but it does make them Americans – North Americans, to be precise – just like us.
Countries like Guatemala, El Salvador, Spain, Venezuela, Chile, Argentina, etc. are not in Mexico. Sounds simple, no? Then why is it that people who speak Spanish, or even vaguely look like they come from south of the border get called Mexican? This often gets justified by people who don’t know any better that, “they all look the same”. Oh, okay, well I guess if that’s the case, then people can just start calling Americans “French” and vise versa if they feel like it – I mean, we look the same, right? Point blank: “Mexican” should not be an insult, and unless you’re geographically challenged, you’ll know that Puerto Ricans, for instance, aren’t Mexican (as if the 2,000 mile difference didn’t make if obvious enough).
Then we move onto the subject of immigrants abusing systems like welfare and social security. There is no denial that this does indeed happen. Where you have a system, you will have people who exploit it. However, seeing as there are a pretty good number of US citizens who abuse both of these systems, perhaps we should focus more on, you know, FIXING them. No, they will never be perfect – but it is a completely unfair standard to hold all immigrants to, by saying that because a few of them might not work for the life they want here, that they should all get out. If this kind of attitude holds true, I wonder when we’re going to start kicking our own citizens out for doing the same thing – the idea is simply laughable. In order to justify that an immigrant exploiting welfare is any more wrong than an American doing the same thing, we’d have to prove that being a citizen of the US gives us the right to do so!
Furthermore, what people neglect to mention about social security is that most people who are here illegally have fake SSN’s. This means they’re paying taxes that they don’t get back. You’d have to be a pretty big douche to say that people who are paying money into a system that benefits you (however flawed it may be) are taking away from you, or exploiting the social security system. Instead of bitching a blue streak about that, why don’t we take issue with the people who get larger benefits from the system than they ever paid into it during their working years?
From here, we move into the various laws that are being put in place to target immigrants. We have the SAVE Act (Secure America with Verification and Enforcement): essentially, under this, employers would have to use the electronic verification system on everyone. Is someone really trying to make me shit a brick? The e-verify system is riddled with error, and has a 10% false/positive rate. Aside from the obvious idea that the system can encourage discrimination amongst employers, can you imagine 10% of people living in the US being flagged in that system? Furthermore, if it’s got problems now, imagine what will happen when it becomes more widely used. Then of course, comes education: how the hell can states even think about getting rid of ESOL programs? Let’s just put this in perspective: 88% of Latinos under the age of 18 living in the US are citizens, with another 1% of them becoming citizens through naturalization. This leads us to another ridiculous idea: that we should get rid of a program that benefits citizens. Don’t get me wrong – if you’re going to live somewhere, you should speak the predominant language, whether it is an official or national one, of the country. If I were going to live in Germany, for instance, it would be ridiculous of me not to learn German. But how on earth is this going to happen if we take the necessary tools away?
So what should we do about immigrants? There is no doubt in my mind that we have to do something, but kicking every person who is here illegally out of this country isn’t the solution. It would be horrendous for our economy, for starters (unless US citizens decide to start picking up the jobs they currently don’t want to work), and it simply goes against the basic idea of our country being the land of dreams, corny as that may seem. It’s a rare person who can say with confidence that every last relative of theirs arrived here legally and without question. It’s also a rare person who can actually pass the citizenship tests immigrants have to take in order to become naturalized. Frankly, I’ve never heard of anyone who had time to spare waiting to be admitted anywhere when their family depended on it – perhaps so many people might not be here illegally if it didn’t take so damn long to complete the process.
I can’t give anyone a step-by-step process on how to deal with the so-called “illegal problem”, but I can say this: the racial slurs, the abusive police officers who take it upon themselves to harass immigrants, and the blame placed for our own failures is not helping. We call ourselves “the land of the free, and the home of the brave”, but sometimes I think we forget what this means. Perhaps if we didn’t view our freedom as an exclusive privilege, and owned up to the shortcomings our country does have rather than pawning them off on the most recent immigrant group, we might remember.
Laura
Rachael said,
March 19, 2008 at 6:19 am
Yay Laura! You articulated perfectly something I’ve been trying to say for years, but never been able to explain to my debate opponents nor my own satisfaction. Thank you for speaking my thoughts so eloquently.
I’ve been a fan of yours on Mugglecast for ages, not in a creepy stalker way, but in a “yay-Laura-for-keeping-the-discussions-intelligent-and-mature” way, and now I’m even more so, since it seems we have pretty much identical political and social views.
Elizabeth said,
March 19, 2008 at 7:24 am
Kicking illegal immigrants out of the US definitely isn’t the right answer. America clearly has the resources to support these people, judging by the ridiculous amounts of money it spends on election campaigns and its ‘defence’ force. The whole point is that all people are created equal, and if the US is able to help these people have better living conditions than they would overseas, then why shouldn’t they be able to stay?
The ‘taking our jobs’ argument is completely ridiculous, because if people are indeed equal, what gives an American more rights to a job than anyone else? It’s the whole idea of protectionism, that a country should look out for themselves. That’s why we have trade embargoes and tarrifs, preventing free trade.
A good argument, Laura, and one that I agree with. You can express yourself very well.
thoughtsofrandom said,
March 19, 2008 at 6:14 pm
Thanks Laura for writing about this! It’s just a really complicated issue. I’m on the fence about it, no pun intended there at all. I completely agree with you.
My mum is an ESOL teacher also.
And can I point out that maybe it’s not our government or our people to blame it’s the huge corporations that keep hiring the illegal immigrants and giving them below minium wage salaries because they aren’t obligated to pay them any higher because they aren’t citizens. Shouldn’t they be the ones to blame in some part? If companies were being held liable for hiring illegal immigrants, then fewer would come here.
Great argument Laura! Love your blog!
-Helena
Morganne said,
March 20, 2008 at 1:26 am
You have several good points, and I agree with most of them. But I would like to point some things out, if you don’t mind-
I’ve grown up in Southern Arizona for pretty much my whole life, and have seen first hand the huge immigration issue. Most of our schools down here are pretty lax when it comes to students speaking another language, and will go out of their way to help explain something to a student in that specific language. My point being that most people don’t have a problem with illegal immagrants.
I speak for myself, and probably many around me when I say its not the immigrants who come over to simply work and find a better life for themselves who I have a problem with; Its the coyotes and the drug smugglers, who do excutions in the middle of the desert and rape women and kidnapp children. And yes, I know that its not only illegals doing this, that there are sick people who are legal residents doing this also, but since I do live so close to the border, I see that more than half of the convicted felons on the news are illegal immigrants.
Anyways, I’m really glad you brought this topic up. You said a lot of interesting things that will keep me thinking.
Yolanda said,
March 20, 2008 at 1:40 am
Laura, I completely agree with your statement.
I come from Puerto Rico a U.S. territory and even though I am “American” people when ever we go to the states treat us like we are illegal imigrants just because we speak spanish. And thats just from the way people look at you! You cant imagine how they treat you.
The point I’m trying to make is that people should understand that illegal imigrant are just people who want to make a better living for their families and for themselves. They come illegally through the border because the U.S. and their countries make it so damn hard for trhe to get a Visa for them to come work or study in the states. And the few who get them have a really tough time getting that citizenship because they dont have the money or they reject their aplicattion so many times that they just give up and decide they should live illegaly.
Ana said,
March 20, 2008 at 2:46 am
I agree with pretty much everything you said.
I just need to add something: I am costarican and I have never been in the USA, but as you may or may not know Costa Rica’s economy depends almost entirely to tourism, which means that we interact with USA citizen almost everyday. More often than not USA citizen talk to us in a very arrogant manner, thinking of themselves oh so very superior. They try to speak Spanish without making themselves understood and blame it on us, I think it is save to say that in the majority of cases costaricans are more than capable of answering in English, to which most USA citizens find themselves surprised. And second, I think you have noticed how I refer to “Americans” as USA citizens, because it seems that USA citizens believe the USA to be America. As far as I understand Costa Rica is located between Nicaragua and Panama, and all three countries are in Latin AMERICA. Doesn’t that make us AMERICANS as well?
I think you did addressed this, but I had the urge to stress the point even further. I am sorry to say that we too are prejudiced against USA citizens mostly for they behavior towards us in OUR OWN COUNTRY.
On another note, I really am a fan of yours Laura (as Rachel said, not in a creepy stalker way, but in a “yay-Laura-for-keeping-the-discussions-intelligent-and-mature” way) and I really think your argument was nicely done. I do appreciate it.
Zara said,
March 20, 2008 at 3:04 am
Exactly. Illegal immigration is a very complicated issue, but many politicians don’t seem to get the point. All some people can talk about is how immigrants are coming into our country without our express permission–erm, hello….have they studied American History lately?? WE came here and drove the Native Americans farther and farther out of their own land. We tricked them, stole from them, killed them, spread diseases they had no immunity to, and now we’re flipping out because people are trying to come here to give their families a better life? Maybe for once we should try working out the problems in the immigration system instead of slamming those who have to resort to desperate means because they can’t get in legally. Keep up the bitching!
–Zara
Verena said,
March 20, 2008 at 4:53 am
Hey,
that’s a really nice argument and I pretty much agree with it. Mentioning Germany reminded me that we have a similar problem with immigrants from Turkey in Germany. I don’t have a problem with people from foreign countries coming into Germany, but over the last months or years it seemed that they just don’t want to integrate – meaning that they don’t really try to learn German and that in the last time many peopel have been brutally beaten up by immigrants, who obviously don’t like Germans at all, saying things such as “Fucking Germans” or “I hate Germany”. So what are they doing in our country?
Well, that’s pretty much the only thing that concerns me about the immigration and (yeah, the whole thing is a bit off topic, so now my real question^^) I was wondering whether you have problems like this with immigrants in the US, too.
Otherwise, keep up the great work, I love reading your blog and Mugglecast is awesome!
- Verena
Jenny said,
March 20, 2008 at 5:46 am
Thank you so much for speaking about this! Honestly,I’m so sick of the racial slurs against immigrants and the treatments they get. My dad is Mexican and my mom is Ecuadorian yet automatically I’m this stereotype and no longer have a name. I’m simply called “Mexican” and am told to ” go hop over the border” or something equally offensive. I’m not a person that likes to start fights but this pisses me off so much, because some people think its a joke but when you’re constantly called that it gets EXTREMELY annoying and its so wrong. What really gets me though is that I’m called these names by [excuse MY racial slur] ignorant white trash. Honestly that’s what they are, they are trash that think because they are white and “American” they are better than me. NEWSFLASH, last time I checked they were asking ME for help with THEIR schoolwork, not the other way around. I was born here, both my parents are now citizens and so is most of my family and I can’t even waste my time explaining it to some people because they are so narrow-minded and they think it’s some joke. They don’t get that most immigrants are honest people and hard workers who are only trying to help their families. They think that because we are different we are less intelligent and they are better than us. I try to not let it get to me but it stings that Mexicans and other hispanic people are looked at as if we were freaks. This isn’t everywhere but I feel like I constantly have to prove myself because they expect me to be stupid or something. I think that this country still has a lot to learn about its own history and the fact that this country thrives on immigrants. Also, like you said, maybe if the legal process wasn’t so ridiculous then so many people wouldnt be here illegally. My family has to wait 12 years for one of my aunts to come to this country legally. TWELVE YEARS. Its horrible, its as if the government purposely puts these time limits on the process so that people lose hope and dont even attempt to come. How can someone in their 20s lose 12 years of their life simply to come here? It’s not right. She’s “American” too but South American so shes “different”. On another issue, I’m sorry but I dont think you’re gonna see Mrs. Smith cleaning the toilets at the mall or Mr. Smith mowing your lawn or washing your car. They want immigrants to leave the country yet they would be seriously screwed because then who would do the dirty work? [obviously this isn't everywhere] but i mean get real “Americans”, you can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Thanks so much for having this blog, Its great to find someplace that shares most of my political views [even if i still can't vote]. and by the way I’m also a “Laura” fan because like a few people said, you keep the discussions intelligent and mature on mugglecast! Your post was very well done =]
-Jenny
obamasmanthruandthru said,
March 20, 2008 at 5:43 pm
Great post. you rock. keep it up laura!
politicalbitches said,
March 20, 2008 at 6:26 pm
There have been several excellent responses to this post, so I’d like to address some of them individually:
Elizabeth – You hit the nail right on the head with jobs and protectionism. I also like that you mentioned tariffs and embargoes – another interesting topic I hope to discuss at one point or another.
Helena – You are absolutely right to observe the issue with employers hiring illegal immigrants for cheap labor. This is a huge problem in and of itself – oftentimes, these people will work 12 and 14 hour days just to scrape by on the meager “pay” (if you can call it that) they’re being given. It’s not even remotely fair that I can go and work 8 hours in a retail store and make $60, but someone performing much more tedious work goes longer and makes less. It certainly says something about what standards certain people have to meet to achieve the American dream, and if we’re all equal, why is it damn near impossible for some? Thanks for your great point.
Morganne – You also raise a valid point, though, I might observe that the reason it seems like you see a lot of illegal criminals has a lot to do with the area where you live. I also used to live in a border state myself, so I can attest to the fact that there are some horrible people who cross into our country. This is why I think immigration should be reformed: first, we fix immigration laws and stop making it impossible for people to become naturalized. From there, we work towards ways to make sure the 12 million undocumented people we have in our country become legal, rather than enforcing scare tactics and kicking them all out. You also bring up education, and how in your schools, most people are pretty accepting of people who don’t speak English. Most border states are like this, however, when you arrive in middle America, or the deep south (Georgia, Alabama, SC, etc.) people are not nearly as receptive, and this is where we run into the threat of losing ESOL programs and the like. I appreciate your post, I think it brings to light a crucial issue that often gets missed by both sides on this issue – thanks!
Yolanda – Well said! I remember a few years ago I was talking to a girl about Florida (I used to live there) and she wrinkled her nose and said (and I kid you not), “All the Mexicans come up from Puerto Rico there.” I remember being absolutely shell-shocked after that to learn that she had no clue that Puerto Rico is a US territory, on top of the fact that she thought Mexicans came from Puerto Rico! Some people will never learn, unfortunately.
Ana – Sadly, you’re not the first person abroad to report that you find US tourists obnoxious. Though, I’ll only speak for myself when I say I mean no offense by speaking Spanish to native speakers. I’m semi-proficient in the language, so I try to use it when I can, which would include going to a country whose primary language is Spanish. I think most people try to do this out of respect, though I understand that some might use such attitudes as a nicer way of looking down their noses.
Zara – Another extremely valid point. If Native Americans had held the same principals a lot of people hold today, we’d have all been packed back on our ships and sent back to our various European countries!
Verena – This is interesting. I can honestly never say I’ve heard a Latino run around here saying how much they hate the United States, but it certainly seems hypocritical that some immigrants in your country are doing this. I’m not aware of a whole lot on the subject, so I definitely plan on doing some reading about it. Any recommendations?
Jenny – Even though you’re not old enough to vote yet, I’d like to thank you for being so enlightened on the issues we face in this country. You present a mature and no-nonsense account of the issues you and your family face here everyday. What really floors me is your Aunt having to wait 12 years to become a citizen – it’s this kind of ridiculous wait that causes people to cross over illegally – like you said, who has that much time to spare? I can really only respond to your post, because I agree with it in its entirety. Thanks!
-Laura
Amanda said,
March 20, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Laura, I love you ok?
Anyway, I basically agreed with everything you said. For me, I automatically side with immigrants because of my friends. At my school, it’s encouraged that bilingual students speak their language to each other, so they never lose their culture. On top of that, students who take spanish are encouraged to talk to these kids as well. Many of my bilingual friends have family members who are illegal, or who want to come to the states, but can’t because of how long it takes to become a citizen. I feel for them. It’s not fair that my friend has to live with his aunt who insults him all the time, because his mother is stuck in the DR waiting to be approved. He has to take care of EIGHT little kids. It just isnt fair.
Tara said,
March 20, 2008 at 9:31 pm
In Canada immigrants who come have to go through a point system and you pretty much have to have a PhD to get in. Then when they do get in to Canada, they seem to have trouble finding jobs and end up driving cabs, or they do find jobs and blossom.
I don’t think immigrants take people’s jobs they come for a better life. If they want to contribute to our economy and be working citizens, than I have no problem if they come over. I think you’d see a lot more white people at an unemployment office than immigrants.
As for illegal immigrants, I don’t think that it is an issue in Canada. But for America, I think they need to strengthen border control, start helping Mexico become a better place to live, and let the illegal immigrants become American citizens, after all, they just want a nice life.
Darryl said,
March 20, 2008 at 10:04 pm
THIS POST IS MADE OF AWESOME. Thank you for speaking so eloquently about such an emotive subject it is interesting to hear about how the discussion works in the US. All I have heard about comes from listening to Alex Jones back in the day and he can be a little right wing for my tastes.
Here in the UK a lot of the arguments are similar to those over there. The taking our job discussion is the one that comes out on top. It is also a class struggle on the BBC (which I am sure you know but for others it is our National paid for Broadcasting Corporation TV and radio) they have recently started a season called “WHITE” talking about white working class people and how they are not being properly represented in modern British Society.
I can agree with some of that sentiment but not being white I don’t know about all of it but I do know that Britain does not represent her ethnic minorities any better. Anyway thats enough from me.
Hazel said,
March 20, 2008 at 11:57 pm
Had to post this twice because my computer went crazy. Grr! Anyway…
::satisfied sigh:: This is why I love this blog. Honestly, I couldn’t have said it better.
First off, thank you for pointing out that Mexican isn’t the only nationality of the millions of immigrants currently living in the US. I was born in Costa Rica, an incredibly small country in Central America, until my family moved here a little more than ten years ago. The first thing that people would say once they realized that my native language was Spanish was “Oh, so you’re Mexican!” My last two years of high school especially (because it was during the time that the immigration debate become big), some people didn’t even bother acknowledging the distinction when I corrected them saying that I was Costa Rican, not Mexican. And it’s bothersome because they also tend to assume that the cultures are exactly the same. I can’t remember how many times I was asked if I could explain what exactly was celebrated on Cinco de Mayo (a purely Mexican holiday) on the basis that because I was Hispanic, I would know.
And I agree, the nationality of Mexican shouldn’t be used as an insult. Being a *Hispanic* is no cause or reason for insult period, especially when so many of us are so grateful to this country for the many opportunities that we’ve been able to find here. Generalizing the entire Hispanic population based on the misconduct of a few, is not fair to the millions of others who work hard, in hopes of giving their families a better standard of living ,and only serves to forment hatred and discrimination.
To me, one of the most painful outcomes of the approach some state governments have taken against illegal immigrants is the separation of families. Mothers and fathers being torn away from their children who are, more often than not, too young to understand why one or both of their parents are suddenly absent. These are people who decide to bring their families here or create their families here because of unstable economic, political or social circumstances in their own countries and they realize that they can provide better for their families here, however meager their jobs and salaries may be, than over there where they might actually be at poverty level.
The problem with kicking every illegal immigrant out isn’t only that it separates families or that it would leave the jobs that many citizens aren’t willing to do unattended…it’s also that the country would be ridding itself of so many bright young people who are looking to contribute to the country by studying and bettering themselves. There was nothing more maddening than watching the Senate vote against the DREAM Act on C-Span a few months ago. There are so many young minds that are about to finish or have already finished high school that are looking for the means of being able to further their studies and continue into a career here, but that find themselves with their hands tied behind their backs because they are illegal and therefore unable to apply for college, no matter how much they may want it. I have seen the suffering first hand from a very close friend of mine who wishes for nothing more than being able to apply to college and can’t because of her illegal status. She is a girl who held amazing grades every year of high school and took an active role in her community by organizing various charity events through the club she was president of at her school. Does someone like her deserve to be kicked out and not be given the chance to keep contributing to the country as an adult? She’s not the only one in that predicament and I don’t think it’s fair that she or any others be denied the right to an education when they are so desperately seeking it. At least they want it, which is more than can be said for thousands of young high schoolers who are US citizens and care more for getting high or partying than appying to even the local community college.
And, as you’ve mentioned, maybe none of this would be happening if the process for entering legally weren’t as drawn out and slow as it currently is. Those who criticize illegal immigrants clearly don’t understand the ridiculous amount of time that it takes to be able to enter legally; they want to improve their lives and that of their families but the years of waiting are sometimes years spent in despair as they struggle to make it wherever they are for the time being.
I hate the hypocrasy of those who denounce illegal immigrants as the cause of decline of any aspect of this country, because really, who in this country *doesn’t* have an ancestor that was an immigrant at one point. The only ones who can claim otherwise are Native Americans and even they have been treated with disdain over the years. This country was supposed to be the land of dreams for those who were looking for a better way of life, but to many of the immigrants currently facing descrimination and various other problems, this country has sadly become nothing but a land of nightmares.
You-Know-Who said,
March 22, 2008 at 7:58 am
“Imagine there’s no countries
It isn’t hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace…”
We should just get rid of borders, IMO.
Grisel said,
March 22, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Thank you SO much for wirting about this. This issue is HUGE and a lot of people don’t really understand all the views that this issue has. I am Mexican American and I have not encountered too much discrimination, but I know many people that have. I know many undocumented immigrants and I have learned that all of them are here to make their life better. If Mexico had a better economy, was NOT corrupt, and would actually try to help all their citizens; no one would come here. They miss and love their country and they would prefer to live there but they just can’t make a living. A lot of the rural areas don’t even have electricity let alone indoor plumbing. When people come here they are so surprised to know that this is normal here.
I intern at a law enfrocement agency and most officers understand the circumstances that the undocumented immigrants face in their home countries. They understand that they are just trying to support their families and give them all the opportunities they would never have back home. They are respectful, honest, and very hard working. But the problem comes with the younger kids and the kids committing crimes because they have nothing better to do. They usually don’t have too much supervision because their parents are working 12 hrs. a day, and sometimes even night. That’s the main reason I think there is such hate towards some HIspanics because of the younger generation. Many of the teenagers and young adults, the children of the undocumented immigrants, have so much hate within them because of the discrimination and helplessness they feel. They join gangs and begin a criminal career. I am not making an excuse for gangs, but many of the members just want to feel accepted by something/ someone. Since the other members are getting into trouble they begin also.
I don’t even know what to think. I was born and raised in the US, but at times I think about all the discrimination we have and the racism. It’s like where are these people coming from? Why do some people hate someone because they are different? We should welcome the differences that makes us more interesting.
Anyways on a much happier note. I love MUGGLECAST! LOL
tashacosta said,
March 23, 2008 at 1:54 pm
I’m on the fence about the whole immigration issue. The big one for me is jobs: it may seem stupid but I can’t seem to find a job anywhere, not even at McDonalds or Taco Bell. It’s an economy issue, of course, because our economy is in the tubes right now, but I have a distinct disgruntlement about not being able to find a job in food service anywhere because they won’t hire someone who isn’t bilingual.
Sure, I could learn Spanish, but my failings with that language in the past suggest to me that I am pretty much incapable of it, which really sucks because I’d love to know what the people at Domino’s are saying about me when I order a pizza. XD
Mainly my biggest problem right now is the crime rate. Where I live we have an immense population of illegal immigrants who bring crime with them. That’s not to associate illegal immigrants with crime; it’s just a fact in my area. Something like eighty percent of hispanics who are arrested in my area for things like gang crime, rape and drug peddling are illegal immigrants. THAT bothers me. They are giving their cause a very poor representation and giving bigots a “reason” to petition against them.
The last one is a personal issue. In hispanic culture women are not necessarily the dominant half. This is not to say that they’re hit or put down in hispanic culture; in fact, when I’ve gone to Mexico the women tended to be very dominant in the household; Mama is in charge, so to speak. But it gets watered down up here and the hispanic men tend to treat women really horribly. When I worked for a pizza delivery place the illegals the company hired used to routinely touch the girls like they had the right, and the hispanic management looked the other way. This only stopped when I actually physically threatened one of my coworkers for touching my sister. I also, on the job, got into a fight with a hispanic customer of ours when I delivered a pizza and he slapped my rear end. Not that these aren’t things you won’t run into with people of any other race, but in my area it’s very common with the hispanics and it drives me insane, because I know that’s not how it is in their country.
Once again, this is just in my area. It does, however, drive me INSANE. I used to live in San Antonio, Texas, and the hispanic society was an upstanding one. They didn’t tolerate crap from their lower-class brothers. In fact, if anything, they were harder on them to maintain their integrity. I just wish that sentiment leaked over to where I live now, because for the most part the hispanic groups here are anything but hard-working and honest. It gives bigots something to complain about, which is never a good idea.
Lindsey said,
March 23, 2008 at 10:25 pm
My dad and step-mom are really anti-immigration and after reading your post I have the best comebacks for everytime they are racist and judgemental of someone because they determine that just because that person may look Mexican they must be illegally here breaking every law and stealling tax payers money.
So thanks for finally giving me something to throw back in their faces.
lizbeth said,
March 24, 2008 at 3:06 am
I wholeheartedly agree. I know my parents aren’t for the idea of kicking everyone out, but they definitely don’t have such a nice view of the illegal immigrants. I have always thought things along these lines, but like Rachael I haven’t been able to put it into words.
I love this blog because not only do I learn from you (Laura and Elysa) bitching, but also from the comments posted on here. I don’t pay much attention to the news because half the time it’s on Fox or some other equally brain-paining channel that I don’t actually hear anything useful, so this is a great place to learn more.
I definitely agree with Zara about the people that need to go back and read American History (or should I say, USA History). I truly hate studying it, mainly because we were so stupid then, just as we are now, and then we try to put ourselves in a better light. It sickens me to know we have a Chris Columbus day considering all the horrendous things he did. (And being stupid enough not to realize this wasn’t India)
About the language issue, I believe that we should try harder to learn languages at a young age so that we don’t have these problems. You know why a lot of kids in Asia now about four languages? Because, they take the time to learn them. Whereas we sit here and think we’re so great, that everyone should learn OUR language while we take away the neccesary tools for them to try
Rachael said,
March 25, 2008 at 1:32 am
I agree with Lizbeth, that language should be taught alot younger than it is. By the time most US public school students get the opportunity to learn a language, they are teenagers, past the prime time for gaining language skills. Languages should be taught in elementary school too. I went to a bilingual school, which are pretty rare now, so my Spanish is pretty good. By the time I got to high school spanish class, I already knew the basics, and had a good accent. I am able to retain my Spanish, and can call it up for use whenever necessary, without too much trouble. My sister went to the same elementary school, but it had changed and done away with most of its spanish programs by the time she was old enough. She has a much harder time with Spanish than I ever did. Alot of European schools teach other languages, especially English, from a pretty young age. Its a sign of US arrogance that we don’t bother to do the same.
Leah said,
March 25, 2008 at 6:40 am
Lizbeth and Rachael, I agree with you about children being taught foreign languages at a younger age. In my school system, it’s not an option to take a foreign language until you’re a freshman. This makes it very difficult to actually retain and use any of the information (especially when you’re in a class full of people who aren’t really interested in learning and are just taking it because they need the credit).
I’d also like to say that I’m extremely saddened to hear of the negative treatment many immigrants (illegal or legal) have received. I would just like to beg all of you who have experienced that to not judge all of white United States citizens based on those incidents. I sincerely try to have an open mind and am genuinely interested in learning about other cultures. If I call someone a Mexican when they are really from Ecuador, it’s not because I’m trying to be rude. I’m simply ignorant. The enviroment I was raised in was not one in which I would be introduced to more worldly views. I feel awful about the treatment of so many people…after all, our families were all immigrants at some point.
jessica said,
March 27, 2008 at 8:56 pm
Laura, this blog rocks (what else is new?)
I’ve had my own rants on immigration. I was born in Mexico and I came here young, with a green card and only a year ago did I recieve my citizenship in the mail (yknow, that piece of paper with fancy type on it).
I agree with pretty much all you said, and many people here also have made good points. I just wish two things: more mexicans learn English (for their own good: they can defend themselves more effectively and understand things) and that Mexico has a revolution, Seriously. Im sick of the Mexican government wasting their macho energy on brawls in the House. Millions of illiterate/abused women and millions of homeless-and-therefore-in-gangs/panhandler *children*. Think about your American elementary school. Schools that galurous in Mexico are usually private/Catholic. SIgh. The thousands that risk their lives to get here, all that is only going to increase. Frankly, the US doesnt need that, but that is NOT a justification for all the slander and rascism (which is SO outdated, honestly….)
Lauren said,
March 28, 2008 at 1:04 am
One of my friends told me a story a while back, about her cousin Byron. He’s a Native American who lives on a res in the mid-west, and one day passed a protest of “Illegal Aliens Go Home” and “Illegal Aliens Bring Terrorism” in front of one of those “Terror-Free” gas stations. He went home, made up a sign himself and came back, standing right across the street. His sign read: “Illegal Aliens Go Home!” On the sign was a cartoon drawing of Europe’s coastline and a bit of the Atlantic Ocean with an old-style mariner ship prominently labeled “MAYFLOWER.”
The protesters…. were unamused. Byron, however, had a BLAST.
Sophie said,
March 28, 2008 at 11:17 pm
Well, the last time mass amounts of people were run out of the country, tarred and feathered and with their farms burned to the ground, it was basically directly responsible for the creation of Canada. I guess I just don’t understand what the big deal is. I’m not sure how it works in the Us, but here one pays income tax (if one makes more than $30 000 a year) and is issued a health card, a SIN number and is eligible for the Canadian Pension Plan (like social scurity, i guess)social assistance and use of: hospitals, doctors offices, walk-in clinics, government offices etc. for free. One would think that we would have more to worry about offering illegal immigrants in my country- then again, the land bridge no longer exists, so I’m not sure where they’re coming from. Probably the US>:) But, sorry, what are immigrants taking advantage of in the US. Okay, schools. BUt honestly? If they manage to enrol their kid in school without a birth certificate or transcript, I’m impressed. That there is proof enough of intelligence to allow them into schools. Allright, about the racism thing.
LEt me tell you a story. As you may know, in Canada there are two official languages, and a very large aboriginal population, as well as assorted inuit tribes. In the past century, Canada has become very multicultural. WEll, we had to be- we had several gazillion kilometres of space with a population of under 10 million. So we relaxed our (previously strict and anti-semetic- blame Dief) immigration laws. SUddenly the country was flooded with muslims, hindus, Iranians, Mexicans, Dutch, Ukranians, etc, etc. Here’s the key: it was promised to the three major nationalities- english, french and aboriginals-that they could always be educated in their language of choice and that they would always be able to deal with the government in the language of their choice. SO everyone was very very happy/. So time went on. Suddenly, one day, the french-speaking Quebecois (I’m a francophone- I get to make fun of us) decided that they weren’t jut equal- they were better! Also, all these strange people and languages and foods kinda scared them. What if their society vanished in the sea of people. WHat these men forgot was that canada is a cultrual mosaic. not a melting pot, and different cultures only enrich a society. So the men decided that they would buil their own country- one that was only french and (for the most part) catholic. Oh, how they dreamed! Thn they went out and asked their constituents. WHat did they think. ANd they thought, and they thought, and finally they listened to an old gnome-like guy who didn’t speak english very well. He told them “We aare not better. We’re equal.” so the people decided that they quite liked the security of belonging to a G8 nation. So they stayed. Then one day terrorists crashed a plane into a big tower and killed many people. Everyone was sad and scared. The gnome was threatened and cajoled, begged to turn over his magical list of immigrants and border records. But he didn’t. So while in the scary land to the south anyone Muslim was being rounded up, the gnome talked to a huge audience of muslims, assuring them of their safety in Canada. Then the gnome retired and was replaced by a crazy guy. Noone like dhim, and he, too, left. Finally, he was replaced by an even crasier guy, who listened to the leader of the scary people and neglected his own. In the future, he will be made to pay, and an owl or a person wo strongly resembles Teddy Roosevelt but isn’t will rule. And once again the cultural mosaic will shine. Vive le Canada.
Marie-Christine said,
March 29, 2008 at 3:08 am
Yes, I know I’m naive. Shut up, it’s cathartic.
Diego said,
March 31, 2008 at 2:54 am
Very, very good post.
Although I travel to the US only four or five times a year, I’ve been having the “Alien go home thing”…on the Internet! This is so (sorry for the swearing) fucking annoying. I’ve been on forums were topics have been locked because in my nationality I placed “Mexico”, and I “don’t know what I’m talking about”, in the threads about the immigration issues. Although I hope, in a near future, go to Standford, or MIT to study, let’s see if USA society is ready to accept hispanics doing good on that side.
-Diego
Joan said,
April 16, 2008 at 6:06 am
Hi Laura! About what you answered to Ana …
I’m Puerto Rican. Over here, we encounter a lot of US tourist when and where you least expect it. I have to say, I give them a lot of props for trying to speak Spanish. Sometimes it’s pretty funny, but really, I consider myself an above average English speaker, but I don’t actually do it a lot because I’m so self-conscious about it.
But sometimes, when I’m addressed in Spanish by them, I automatically respond in English. LOL.
Maybe is a defense mechanism … to let them know I can speak their language and that they could stop trying to speak mine (if they are thinking I wouldn’t understand theirs). Surprisingly, I have to say to almost everyone kept speaking to me in Spanish. Sometimes the exchange goes with them speaking Spanish to me, and me responding in English.
It’s quite funny. As I said, I appreciate their effort. It’s ridiculous the way our minds have been conditioned to react the way do toward “outsiders”.
Anyway, I appreciate your post on the immigrant issue an you clearing up a lot of misconceptions about us, latinos. You hit the nail in the head. You’re awesome.
Fish said,
April 25, 2008 at 5:40 pm
I’d like to point out that maybe the legal system, while it does need an overhaul, would probably work better if there was better enforcement about people entering illegally. The org deporting people is under the same umbrella as those that file immigrants’ paperwork, etc.
I admit that I don’t really understand why there is so much comraderie to illegal immigrants by those that are here legally. A legal immigrant went throught the appropriate channels, and it probably wasn’t easy for them, having to wait in their home country for their paperwork to go through, etc. and then along comes someone who thinks their problems are worse, so they are entitled to skipping all of that, and then demanding from the US gov’t special rules to justify them being here. If I were the legal immigrant, I wouldn’t join their rally, I’d be pissed! Can anyone explain to me why they don’t seem to care. It seems like if anyone could reasonably make the “they took my job” argument, it would be them.
Apparently, the entitlement attitude is not just rampant amongst US citizens. The argument “my life in my home country is terrible, the US has plenty of money, therefore they should support me” is WRONG. Just the same as, “I’m poor, the gov’t should take care of me” is wrong. Take care of yourself. If you can’t, be proactive in finding a non-profit org, or any number of availble resources to help you take care of yourself. It’s called personal responsibility, and the severe lack of it is the #1 problem with the world today, in my opinion.
Zoe said,
May 10, 2008 at 1:33 am
Well said, Laura.