4,000

March 24, 2008 at 5:15 pm (Iraq War)

Today it has been reported that another four US soldiers were killed last night (Sunday) in a roadside bomb, which brings the number of US casualties in Iraq to 4,000. These are 4,000 children who will never come home to their parents, and many of them had children of their own they won’t get to watch grow up. 4,000 people we will never see walking down the street, or even doing something as simple as making a trip to the grocery store. 4,000 people who made the ultimate sacrifice, and 4,000 families whose lives will never be the same again.

Let us not push these men and women to the backs of our minds, as war casualties often are. If the news outlets are tomorrow reporting on celebrity gossip – turn it off, and instead, take a moment to remember the brave people who have given their lives, and the brave people who are still in Iraq and Afghanistan.

As for now, I’d like to give the floor to some of you: What do you think about war casualties? Can they ever be worth it? I look forward to reading your thoughts.

Laura

42 Comments

  1. Helena said,

    The War, has done so much damage to both families here, in the United States, as well as in Iraq. This was was based on the foundation of lies that the administration won’t admit. How can anyone support a man who lied to our country, and can still walk around while 4,000 people are dead because of him? I can’t understand how that man lives and how anyone can support him. War casualties will always continue, but at least in World War II we were there for a reason and under those circumstances then it can be worth it. However, when we are in a place that we shouldn’t have gotten into in the first place, that is not worth it. This war isn’t worth it. It’s so tragic that we have an administration who is willing to sacrifice this many lives. It is especially worse when our own vice president doesn’t care what the hell his own people think. If not just for that, but for everything else that this administration has done, they should all be put up for war crimes.

  2. Carter said,

    Can they be worth it? Yes, if it’s for a legitimate cause like the prevention of genocide in Nazi Germany during WWII. But 4000 people dead so Bush can impress his daddy while trying to (at least in his own mind) chip away at the unwinnable war against terror.

    First, we were eliminating the WMDs. Then, we had to get rid of Saddam because of his ties to 9/11. Then, we had to help the Iraqis establish a new government. Why are we still there, exactly?

  3. Bree said,

    That’s a great question: why are we still there exactly? I don’t understand what it is we’re trying to do. Maybe I’m just uninformed, but a lot of other people seem to be too. This is one of those things that makes me mad. We’re fighting a war over there and we’ve lost 4000 men and women already and for what purpose? No one really knows the real one I suppose..

  4. Morganne said,

    What’s truely sickening is that this war has created more deaths than even the 9-11 attacks (2,974). Wasn’t this war created, supposedly, to end terrorism? Yet we’re losing more and more lives everyday. Don’t the soliders who have died in battle deserve the same respect as the victims of the 9-11 attacks? Maybe America just doesn’t realize that numbers add up. They only see the reports about four or five soliders dieing, they don’t look at the accumulated total.
    And aren’t we as bad as the terrorists who attacked us in the first place? We drop bombs over Iraq, wiping out villages. And what about the Iraqis who are killed in the same roadside bombs as our soliders? We hardly ever hear about them. Does anyone even know to the death toll for them?
    I’ll stop myself here, before I get too heated and stray off the topic of casualties.

  5. Martin said,

    It really saddens me to hear this news. Not because of the sheer number of soldiers killed (Is there a difference between 4000 american GIs been killed and the tens of thousands civilians and Iraqi forces who lost their lives in the course of this war?), but because of the knowledge that these people might have lost their lives for no reason. It is one thing to lose one’s life for a noble cause. But it is difficult to tell whether that really is the case in Iraq. The world might be a better place with Saddam Hussein eliminated and a democratic government in charge of Iraq. But this does not justify a war without backup of the UN or any Public international law. And as long as there is a civil war lurking on the horizon, I am afraid of the consequences this war might cause.

    I really hope in very depths of my heart that will this somehow turn out for the better. I feel sympathy for all those people who died in the cause of this war, as well as their families. But nevertheless: The war on terrorism might be a war worth to be fought, but Iraq was the wrong battlefield.

  6. Adit said,

    Personally i think there are wars in which casualties are worth it, but this is not one of them. I feel truly saddened by the number of children who wont see their parents again and/or wont see their own children again just because one guy in the white house felt like waging war one day. Its stupid and pointless war in which we are achieving nothing. War casualties started being pointless after WWII in my opinion, because thats the last war that actually meant something

  7. Erik said,

    Ok, I may sound like I am mad at you, but I am really just angry at all of the idiots at my school.

    Can it be worth it? You can never risk another man’s life for good of all people or for a greater cause, but if someone wants to risk there lives, you can’t stop them. For some the war may have been a way to pay for school or their dream ever since they were a little kid, but most people join the army in the pursuit of happiness, and you need a cause like the pursuit of happiness to be willing to risk your life. Some people say that 4000 Men and Women died for no reason, but I am pretty sure that the Men and Women Iraq see this war as something worth fighting for, and no one can tell them that the troops are wrong and that they are risking their lives everyday for no reason. Would you go out and risk your life on a whim, or would you need a reason to do it? Has anyone ever considered that the troop’s reasons to fight this war are more personal than the reasons to end the war? Not every troop is doing this because of the reasons Bush has given us.

    I pity any troop, who went to war and died when it wasn’t his real dream, and I envy all the Men and Women who got to Follow their dreams and died doing what they wanted to do with their lives. Did they make the Ultimate Sacrifice? If they lived their lives to the fullest with their dream accomplished, then they didn’t give their lives away, they lived fuller lives then the average man knows.

    Can it be worth it? The troop’s lives are their own, and when people say “We have lost so many troops in Iraq” yes you may have lost a friend or family member, but you haven’t “Lost” that person because you never owned the troops, and they have the free will to risk their lives. War casualties when it comes to innocent civilians are just tribal, but when a troop is injured it isn’t a casualty because troops aren’t victims. They know what their up against and their fighting back.

  8. politicalbitches said,

    Erik, one thing you should consider is most of the troops aren’t really given a “choice” when it comes to fighting in the war – if you’re a member of the military, you go where you’re assigned to go. Of course, no one is saying that our troops in Iraq are dying with a lack of honor, or because they made a “bad” choice – but what people are saying is that these individuals are fighting and dying in a war based on a foundation of lies and deception. In that case, no one faults the troops, but the administration who so readily and selfishly got us into this mess. Also, I think you’re assuming a lot to say all troops know what they’re up against – if you ever meet with a military recruiter, they are notorious for out and out lying about what you will do in the military in order to get you to join.

  9. Carol said,

    Just thought I would correct some history mistakes, as history is what I’m passionate about. The USA did not enter WWII to stop genocide. In fact, most people in the USA did not belive the Holocaust was happening at the time, and it wasn’t until wide-spread press covereage of liberations came out that people started to care. It would be more accurate to say the USA entered the war because of Pearl Harbor.
    However, to clarify: I do not think this devalues the lives of those soldiers or any others. Every soldier who joins the armed forces on a volunteer basis (as they do in America) deserves to be honored, because they have no say in where they go, but they choose to serve for the country.

  10. lizbeth said,

    I believe Erik Makes a good point in some aspects. But even if they died doing what they dreamed of, what about everyone close to them? They lost an important person in their life, for a war that seems pointless to almost all of the United States.

    I also wholeheartedly agree with Morganne. Does GWB realize the effects this war is having on everyone? Or is he like Dick Chaney spouting off “So” whenever someone tells him that practically all of the USA are against this war?

    And I believe Carter hit the nail on it’s head when s/he raised the all-important question: Why are we still there?

  11. Kare said,

    You can’t put a price on a life. I don’t think you can justify death.

    What you can do is justify actions. There have been instances in history where action needed to be taken (I’m not going to name specific wars because everyone has a different opinion on what was necessary). I think it’s less that the deaths are “worth it” and more that they are a sad effect of taking action that needed to be taken.

  12. Zara said,

    I agree with Kare–like she said, “You can’t put a price on a life.” I do believe it’s true that there have been wars worth fighting. The American Revolution, WWII (In some aspects, at least…the atomic bomb was an enormous mistake…I could go on and on), etc. That is not to say that war casualties are ‘okay’ because of the end result…death is death, period. I feel, though, that this war is a waste. It’s a waste of money, time, effort, and human lives–and all these things could have been used for a multitude of good causes; but no, the government decided to fight an idiotic war instead.

    And by the way, Mr. Bush, the American people are against it. And Dick Cheney says, “So?” Apparently he’s trying to ignore the fact that he lives in a democracy, not a dictatorship. Doesn’t it strike you as ironic that the executive branch was so eager to fight a dictator abroad, yet refuses to acknowledge and take into account the wishes of its own people? You know, the ones they were elected to SERVE, not brush off.

  13. hilere said,

    well… I don’t think it’s the dying part that should be questioned so much as the killing part … if that makes sense. I think it is completely wrong to destroy human life. It just breeds more hatred and more killing. Although I would respect arguments claiming exceptions to this.

  14. lizbeth said,

    I’ve already commented. but I just read Zara’s comment and almost laughed at the irony in the second paragraph. The very sad thing is: it’s true.

  15. Tom_F said,

    Well boo hoo, this is the world’s smallest violin playing here. Whilst we might not like the fact that Allied Troops are suffering casualties, I have to say (and I don’t think I’ve ever said this) that Bush was right in invading both Iraq and Afghanistan (the latter more so). Yes, he was bullshitting us a tad when he said there was “No doubt whatsoever that the Iraqis had WMDs”, but this is one of the rare occasions when I will say that the ends justify the means, referring of course to the capture of good ol’ Saddam. Nukes or not, he was a sadistic bastard who would have kept killing Kurds, no matter how many “letters of deep concern” our self-righteous friends at the UN sent. There’s also ACTUAL evidence that the former regime was providing the facilities required to train and operate terror cells.
    What I strongly disprove of is the policy of kicking the shit through Iraq, who sort of-possibly-maybe have WMDs, while simultaneously ignoring North Korea, which we KNOW have a Nuclear arsenal, because they’ve tested three decoy ballistic missiles in the Sea of Japan (also kinda mean, as we all know how touchy the Japs are about Nukes). To me, this doesn’t seem very consistent. One gets the feeling that there probably isn’t any oil under the rice paddies.

  16. Paul said,

    What they don’t tell you is the amount of suicides that take place in the army/marines. Huge figures.

  17. Allison said,

    I think the issue about war casualties is whether or not they have made a difference. 4,000 dead later, years after ‘Mission Accomplished’, and we haven’t learned a single thing from the Iraq war.
    Its absolutely ridiculous that people are dying because of our government’s ignorance. We have a president who was pampered, and who never had to see what war did to people. People who aren’t killed IN Iraq get killed BY Iraq. They come home, and they aren’t the same person they used to be, its just a shell. Like Paul said, think of how many soldiers end up taking their own lives because of the torture they are going through.
    I’m looking forward to the day when the reports of Britney’s adventures and Tom Cruises’s kids leave the front page. Maybe we might even get some news on that genocide thats been happening for five years.

  18. Sophie said,

    Kay.. greaqt, You want to stop terrorism? Get the bleep out of Ira and come to Afghanistan, where we’ve been all along in an active combat mission. We’ve suffered the most casualties of any G8 nation. We’ve phone all our allies and requested a troop surge. Canadians are being massacred. Jean-Phillippe Geffros- aged 23
    killed by a roadside bomb.
    Kandahar, Afghanistan
    He was my brother.
    That he not be forgotten.

  19. Marie-Christine said,

    I don’ t know about you yanks, but in Canada on november eleventh, armistice/rememberance day, schoolchildren sing a song called “NEver Again” the lyrics follow.
    War is not heroics nor is it pride
    It’s a shame to lose all those precious lives
    Life is too short. We could love for so long
    Where’s the glory? Never again!
    Some men pass away beneath a foreign sky
    And some are men burned alive inside
    And some come home with minds and bodies in pain
    Where’s the glory? Never again!
    Never again take arms against a brother
    Never again take a life without knowing why
    Never again stand by to see another baby lose a father
    Never again the grieving of a wife
    I never thought our last good-bye would be forever
    You’re gone from our home but not our hearts
    But oh how we loved you
    Your ship is on the river
    Where’s the glory? Never again!
    Never again take arms against a brother
    Never again take a life without knowing why
    Never again stand by to see another baby lose a father
    Where’s the glory? Never again!
    Never again!

    So.. here’s my question.
    Whatever happened to Never Again?

  20. Phaith said,

    I think that these deaths are absolutely pointless. There is absolutely no reason for us to still be in Iraq, for God’s sake. I agree with Sophie, we need to be in Afghanistan. We (that is, our troops) could do more good there, instead of making matters worse in Iraq. I mean, hell. Damn Bush. He’s ruined all of these peoples lives just so he can TRY to make it seem like he’s doing something.

  21. Natalie said,

    It makes me so sad thatm Britney Spears has been shown as more important than the 4,000 brave men and women who put their lives on the line everyday only to meet a tragic end. Each day the news gets worse and people would rather here about Miley Cyrus.

  22. Jenny said,

    Sophie: I’m so sorry for your loss, and you raise an interesting point: Why aren’t we in Afghanistan to the extent that we are in Iraq? Anyone have any idea? I mean, no offense to anyone, but the Canadian army is waaay smaller than ours. Isn’t it sad that Canada has suffered more deaths in Afghanistan that ny other country? Especially since we’re the ones who started ‘The War on Terror” in the first place? I’ve done some research. The Canadian Prime Minster has requested a troop surge from the following countries: France, Britain and the US. He also requested that we, in turn, phone our allies and request a troop surge. Why are we willing to fight to the death of the last canadian?

  23. Laura K. said,

    Not to mention the Iraqis who have died in much larger numbers. Funny how the media doesn’t really mention them.

  24. Rose said,

    The war should never have been started. But that’s in the past- now that the US are in the middle of this mess that they’ve gotten themselves into, they need to clean it up. An immediate withdrawal would just make matters worse, I feel.

  25. Kumar said,

    Just letting you know, you might be interested in this: http://www.StopIranWar.com

    Do what you can, before it’s too late.

  26. Zach said,

    My cousin is in the army and has been to Iraq and lost friends in the War. He says that it is the best thing he says that it is worth it and wants people to know that what you don’t see in the media (or blogs) is that Iraqi people really are happier and girls and get to go to school and be educated to help make their country a better place. I don’t agree with war and it should ALWAYS be the last option but since we are there I don’t believe in leaving the Iraqis to genocide.

  27. Nora said,

    No lost life is ever worth it.

  28. josh said,

    The US military causalties are tragic, but so are those from other country’s soldiers (it’s not just the US) and the civilian casualty count which is WAY higher (iraqbodycount.com).

  29. Katie said,

    What’s with the lack of blog-age lately?!? I need this blog to keep me updated! ;D

    Barack Obama spoke in my state today (North Dakota) and his speech was so eloquent that I was literally hanging off every word. That’s saying something seeing as that I’m a 16 year old girl with a short attention span =D. Anyways, my point. He talked about many things, including the war in Iraq and he was brutally honest in the fact that it’s going to take multiple years and possibly even multiple presidents to bring this war to a complete end. Now, I’ll just include some of my favorite quotes that I jotted down during the speech.

    “A great challenge is also a moment of great opportunity.” – Barack Obama

    “We rise and fall as one people, one nation.” – Barack Obama

    “You and I together, we will change the country and we will change the world.” – Barack Obama

    If I could, he would have my vote no doubt. OBAMA ‘08!

  30. lizbeth said,

    I guess I’ll go to youtube and find that speech now, but I agree with ya Katie, they need to update soon!

  31. Zach said,

    So I remember posting a comment before this…did I get deleted and if I did that is some balanced thought and great use of free speech there.

  32. Sophie said,

    know you’re american… but I met Justin Trudeau today, the son of former PM Pierre Trudeau, who is also now going into politics, and I had exactly the same reaction. His speech was amazing and inspiring, especially to young people like myself (i’m thirteen) I swear… if we got him as a Prime Minister, and you get Obama as your president… it would be great.
    By the way.. I agree with Katie- where are the updates?

  33. April said,

    I’m back again!

    So I caught up on all your blogs…right now it seems like the only place that makes news digestible for teens or even young adults around my age. Everything on the news nowadays, even when I watch cnn or fox in the morning seems so freakin sugarcoated and…ugh it’s like these reporters latch onto stories like this just for the shock factor, but it’s so sad that so many soldiers have had to die for a pointless war, one that should’ve been over years ago.

  34. Catherine said,

    I’m not American and I guess you could say that I’m not particulary polictally aware either. But I do think that it’s sad that we as the human race are still using war as a way to try and solve our problems. It’s even worse when people try to justify the bloodshed. It should never be justified.

    I know this sounds rather simplistic. But with all this news of death and destruction, and our history of war and fighting, it’s like we’re trying to destroy ourselves. The sad thing is, it’ll never change.

  35. Nathanael said,

    Umm… I’m really sorry Laury, but I don’t see the point that anyone is trying to make buy stating that people die in Iraq. Unless I’m mistaken, people die all the time in greater numbers that the 4,000 in Iraq. And don’t think that I don’t care for them, but who’s to say that they’re lives were wasted for nothing just because they decided to work for another asshole in power. I mean, I believe that no life is ever wasted if it is a one that tries to help others, and in the end, no matter what Bush’s other reasons are, the people in Iraq didn’t exactly have a better lives before America came in and tried to do something.

    What I’m saying is, people die for a ton of stupid shit, but in the grand scheme of things, dying is a probability that every soldier, man, woman, and child face on a daily basis. What those soldiers do, gives our country the right to choose our futures and how we might die. Dying for a greater cause is ultimately a better legacy that just dying, so how dare you so that those people’s lives were wasted. No life is a waste, unless it chooses to be.

  36. Nathanael said,

    Oh, and by the way political bitches, the world is corrupt. Get used to it, America is the best country in the world. But that’s like saying you have the cleanest asshole, it’s still made to shit. Do you have any idea how evil people really are. Government can not, will not, and will never be perfect. Because it is ran by men, and men are corrupt, and women don’t have the brute animalistic logic and blunt solidity that it takes to run the world. History has proven this, women are too beautifully complicated and passionate about life to run this world, because in the end nothing will ever work out and we all want to seperate ourselves from each other into meaningless groups. We are all so very selfish, and the best thing anyone can do is look at themselves and try to change the world through their own minds and will.

    The world is tethered together by mutual selfishness, and more recently mutual masturbation because we find that a bit more entertaining. Nevertheless, everything is pointless and you’re going to die so why worry about the corrupt hearts of mankind when instead, you can go suck on a man’s juicy cock and feel his warm semen douse your face in pure oblivion of the fact that nothing really matters. Instead of trying to find hope, find a rope and let your man bind you into the perfect position for forceful anal penetration of the penis. Instead of worrying about dead soldiers in Iraq, you could flash your rack in a public setting to prove that you don’t care about any of this bullshit. This shit is bananas, and why not see how many of those bananas you can fit inside the tight pussy of political expression.

    Yeah.

  37. Nathanael said,

    I’m totally turned on by bitches who are into politics
    and the only ones better, are the ones who swallow dicks
    whether in the mouth, or in the depths of their hallow slits
    you can find yourself political bitches in just about all colleges
    now show my penis where the motherfucking knowledge is
    aint nobody who can leave so much in you the way that I’ll do it
    open up that beautiful head, and let my cock maul through it
    so now my cock snot drips with the knowledge that no cock can get, muah-hah-hah-hah YEAH!!!

  38. Verena said,

    @Zach: Post 22, there’s your comment. ;)

    well, i just think this whole war is awful… so many people that have to die for… well, for what? A few weeks ago it was reported that a young men from our neighbor community (which is also very small) got killed in Iraq – it shocked everyone!
    But then they’re still people in my high school that are sooo eager to join the army and I just can’t understand why. I mean, I’m not saying that it is bad to defend your country when it is necessary, but why getting killed when it isn’t worth it?
    I just don’t think that the people that joined the army are ready to die. I believe that there is some heroism, but I think the people that join the army have a wrong image of what’s going on. I know it’s probably always been like this, but I think it’s just not fair to show kids all the great, heroic stuff about fighting a war and not telling them anything about how likely it is that you’ll get shot within the first week or month.
    I just can’t believe that the US is actually recruiting high school student!!! Coming to high schools and telling them what great oppurtunities they would have etc!!! That’s sick! Sorry, I know politics usually dont care about moral, but that’s just wrong! Besides ,I heard about statistic that show, that only a very small percentage actually use these chances to study whatever……wonder why…

  39. Fish said,

    I’ve had 4 of my friends in Iraq already, and a fifth deploying next month. All of them know exactly what they got into, did it voluntarily, and 4 of them told me they would go back because they believe it to be important. Whenever I hear people saying “that soldier died for no reason” I remember my friends telling me about their buddies dying, and think how much pain it would cause them if I were to suggest it was for no reason. In my mind, that’s the equivalent of going to a funeral and saying to the widow “I think he wasted his life in his chosen profession” Is anyone here really going to say that’s acceptable? Clearly not, so it’s not acceptable just because you don’t directly know these people. I’m all for keeping reports of these noble sacrifices in the forefront of the media, but using these sorts of figures to support an agenda is disrespectful. Twisting the memory of someone to something it’s not to push an argument is worse than not remembering them at all.

    On the political side, while there obviously have been failures and lack of transparency, it’s the sign of an ignorant person to seek out a scapegoat and join the mob. Anyone who truly believes that the President is single-handedly running the country apparently never took Civics. While, yes, final decisions are made by him, he is not in control over what intelligence crosses his desk. It’s common sense to seek advice of military commanders who have ideas about improving the situation on the ground. There is not a single person alive capable of keeping track of everything and not rely on others to aid, guide, suggest, and help, particularly in a crisis. I believe, in an awful situation, Bush did the same as anyone can do: make what you think is the best decision given the information you have access to. He’s not God, he does make mistakes, and I doubt whether anyone else, given faulty intelligence and a panicking country, could have done much better. Are there problems with the war, yes, of course. But instead of looking backward and whining like children “it shouldn’t be this way” a wise person would look forward to navigating a difficult situation in the best way possible. You can disagree on what that way should be, but given what the current administration has decided is our path, it’s hard to argue that they are failing completely.

  40. Shawn said,

    180,000. That is the number of Iraqi Kurds Saddam Hussein admitted to killing during his trial in September 2005. 5000 is the number of Kurds he gassed to death on March 16, 1988 in Halabja, Iraqi. We promised ourselves and the rest of the world that we would not allow another man like Adolf Hitler perform mass genocide again after WWII. President Clinton helped to oust Slobodan Milošević from Serbia for the same reasons. Our service men & women are fighting not for WMD or oil but fighting against tyrants who slaughter the innocent for “ethnic cleansing.” Where has our backbone and values gone?

  41. Phil said,

    Someone recently asked me would you approve of this war if you had to send your 7 year old son to die for it?

    In reality it is an unfair question. Of course neither answer would be appropriate. If I said yes, people would see me as a barbarian who would send a child to war. If I said no, I would be the elitist who wants others to send their children to die, but not mine.

    In my view the truth is after 9/11 the American public (including me) was extremely angry and wanted someone to pay for what happened to us. Somehow it is easier to cope with things if you have something to direct your anger at, something less obscure than a terrorist group. The now easily forgotten images of some middle eastern people dancing in the streets celebrating the deaths on 9/11 are still etched in my brain, they are hard to forget.

    As a Conservative, I thought we were justified in our war effort. I believed the data. To this day I still believe that the decision to go to war was based on bad intel more than a deliberate lie. The billion (or trillion) dollar question is what do we do now. I’m sure this is not an easy answer. I hate that the good will we had from around the world immediately after 9/11 was squandered. What an opportunity that was lost.

    I can only say that every loss of life all 4,000 American deaths and for that matter the deaths of the innocent lost in this war leave me with a sick feeling. I don’t want to see anyone die, I like many others want a lasting peace and tolerance for those who are different. I want my 9, 7, 4, 2, 4 month old to grow up in a world with endless ideas, wonder, and peace.

    I will remember all those lives lost, and remember that every person in this world is unique. I will remember that every war has a price, and to the families of those who have lost someone, and to the rest of it will never seem “worth it”. Life is to precious.

  42. Emma said,

    I hate the war i wish the world could survive without it, but unfortunatly a comprimise will never be reached. I know someone who was injured (or how ever you spell it) in the war and he was in pain for months and had to go through painful surgery. I really hate the war because its tearing families apart and killing people that we know. Wasn’t two world wars good enough? About 34 million people killed in both wars, why do we need more? Kids are wondering where their parents have gone and wondering if they’re ever going to see dad (or mom) again. Its horrible. I can’t stand to think about what it would be like, i just want this war to be over so more lives can be spaired (i hate my bad spelling) and families can be together again. But we never know how long this war will go. God bless their families, i hope they’re ok, atleast as ok as they can be.

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